Night Liberty Life: a night visitor – Heorhi Kazulka, Coordinator of the Belovezhskaya Pushcha 21st Century Public Project
Presenter Elena RADKEVICH, "Liberty Life Radio" (Belarusian Service), December 08, 2006
Heorhi Kazulka, former employee of the National Park "Belovezhskaya Pushcha", is a tonight's visitor. We shall talk about how the Belovezhskoe Accords have had an influence upon the life of the people living in the area of the National Park "Belovezhskaya Pushcha" and on Pushcha's destiny.
15 years back no one thought that Belovezhskaya Pushcha which beauty was poetized and described many times will become for someone a malicious symbol of crash and disorder. However, the truth is that the events of 15-year's prescription clarified the way for other people to the future and have opened new prospects. On December 8, 1991 the so-called Belovezhskoe Accords which broke the existence of the USSR were signed in the governmental residence "Viskuli" in Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Who has buried the Soviet Union? They are Mr. Shushkevich, Eltcin and Kravchuk. That is the most often answer which isn't completely true. They had an assistant (she) to make this business. Evgeniya Pateychuk, secretary of the Belovezhskaya Pushcha's director of that time, was urgently called in that evening, was dekivered to Viskuli and was ordered to be a typewriter. Her fingers typed a final text of a document about cessation of the existence of the USSR.
Evgeniya Pateychuk "I typed what I was given. I couldn't get it in the mind. Understanding came later, in a day or two, but nothing could be clear and visible at that time. My God! All participants have begun to come at once. I was in a director's office and wanted to tell that I went down into history. Give my son at least an apartment for my role in the history. Because I have come in a history, they also wanted to take away haymaking. A KGB employee said "All Kamenyuki's villagers will be aware of what you are typing". I answered "If one could think that all villagers will know I couldn't be here and couldn't work in the enterprise for forty years". He then apologized to me hundred times. We discussed much this topic. I have destroyed the Union".
Evgeniya Pateychuk who "has destroyed the Union" lives in the village of Kamenyuki, administrative centre of the National Park "Belovezhskaya Pushcha". How have the Belovezhskoe Accords had influence upon the life of the people living within the borders of Belovezhskaya Pushcha and on Pushcha's destiny? We will talk today about it with Heorhi Kazulka, former employee of the National Park "Belovezhskaya Pushcha" and inhabitant of the mentioned village of Kamenyuki, who is a visitor of the "Night Liberty Life". I welcome you.
Heorhi Kazulka [HK] - Good evening.
Elena Radkevich [ER] - Heorhi, do you remember that day of 8th December.
[HK] - Yes, I remember it very well.
[ER] - What was going on in that day? What events have you remembered?
[HK] - That day was like the others, nothing particular. The day has passed. I do not remember exactly it was in that day or the next one, but I remember that an evening TV news has suddenly shown, let's say, this incident happened in our Pushcha.
[ER] – So, does it mean that you didn't know at all that you became famous?
[HK] – No, we didn't know it beforehand because all was under secret. The fact is that this delegation didn't come to Viskuli through Kamenyuki. It went directly to Viskuli from the side of the Pruzhany town. We, therefore, knew nothing. We have learned it only from TV like all the people of the country. And we already asked later about how it happened.
[ER] – As to that woman, secretary Evgeniya Pateychuk, is it really for making a mock of her because she has broken down the Union?
[HK] - No, this is like a joke.
[ER] – However, she has said so and it still seems that she feels herself one of the accomplices of this process.
[HK] – It's true. I realize that the situation was quite nervous. They people arrived were not the ordinary ones. They were the heads of the countries. Referring to her words, she didn't understand well from the beginning what was going on. It became clear only later. This was very seriously.
[ER] – Well, Belovezhskaya Pushcha and the governmental residence "Viskuli" has become famous all over the world. What has this event given to the people who live in the area of the National Park "Belovezhskaya Pushcha"? What are pluses and minuses? Probably, a lot of money was lately invested in Kamenyuki, administrative centre of the National Park "Belovezhskaya Pushcha". An appropriate infrastructure for tourism like hotels, a TV-tower, broad streets, fountains - what else do you have now? - has been created there.
[HK] - Yes, many things happened for this time. At the beginning these events have actually influenced very much upon Belovezhskaya Pushcha because the site at once became very famous all over the world. The people came from abroad. The country has got independence at that time. There were many international delegations and everyone wanted to visit and look at the place where the events have taken place. I also had something to do with tourism as I guided them. When the people came, I asked "Do you know about Belovezhskaya Pushcha?" They positively answered because the large country was broken down here. However in some years later, this became to be forgotten. When, for example, I met some foreigners at conferences or at any other measures and said that I am from Belovezhskaya Pushcha, I asked about their knowledge of this place. Someone answered "yes", someone said "no". When I asked about Viskuli, there were only few people who remembered it.
[ER] - Since what time were these excursions forbidden and have these trips gone into a recession?
[HK] - The policy of the country was as the following. There were not many tourists after the disintegration of the USSR because of serious economic difficulties of that time. Then the tourists became more and more numerous to bring rapid development. Both the country and the National Park were interested in getting as many tourists visiting Pushcha as possible. Viskuli were therefore under good advertisement. There was a special route through Viskuli in order to show and tell about this place. Someone, though under a special sanction, was allowed to enter the palace.
[ER] - And to sit at that table?
[HK] – No, it's wrong. The ordinary tourists got impossible to do it, while the special visitors were allowed.
[ER] - Have you been in Viskuli, in that residence?
[HK] - Sure, much more than once. It's already later, since about 1996, this process began gradually to be turned off. And the end of 90th, nearly 1998, an order was made completely to ban the delivery there and everything has been stopped. The tourists go now there, as far as I know, only under a special sanction and this is very rare.
[ER] - Who visits - native people or foreigners? Are they the tourists?
[HK] – Yes, the tourists. I am talking about the tourists.
[ER] – Belarusians or foreigners?
[HK] - The foreigners are also delivered. When any delegation comes and the people are interested in, they are, probably, get allowed. However, this kind of excursions became already rare. This route does not serve the mass tourism.
[ER] - Does the president, today's head of the country, frequently visit Viskuli?
[HK] - I don't know exactly because I don't work in the Park. I think if I could currently be a Park's employee, I probably would know few about it. However, from rumors because of countryside, his visits are not frequent. Maybe there are few times per year.
[ER] - Then, apparently, you get any restrictions concerning movement between villages or it is no concern of you?
[HK] - It is no concern of Kamenyuki in any way because the village is located almost 20 kilometers from Viskuli. All acts occur in the heart of Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Those people, who live closer, probably, feel it. For example, a case to restrict gatherers of mushrooms from the next village happened last autumn, but it was connected with the presence of another officials. It proved to be that someone was even fined for gathering mushrooms in that time. There were no such the penalties before and after.
[ER] - It's clear. But how can they learn if they are not informed beforehand? How is it possible to learn what is permitted and what it forbidden? They must feel. Don't they?
[HK] - The question if logical. It is difficult to explain it. It should be oriented oneself.
[ER] - Well, you say that many people, in particular the foreigners, have forgotten what is Belovezhskaya Pushcha and Viskuli…
[HK] - No. They are aware of Pushcha because there is also a Polish part of Pushcha which is very wide-famous. They know about the Bialowieza Forest. The only is nearly no one already remembers Viskuli when I tell about my home close to this residence.
[ER] – We have decided to examine the Belarusian regarding their memory of this. We asked the people in the streets of the town of Novopolotzk "What do you associate Belovezhskaya Pushcha with?" ------------
The answers of the passers are as the following:
"Belarusian reserve, nature, bison, Grandfather Frost's residence".
"Bison, Belovezhskaya vodka".
"I immediately imagine a large greasy bison".
"Nature, first of all. Everything was earlier normal but now I read in newspapers that bison suffer from illnesses…".
"An accord about CIS creation was signed there ".
"Bison, the Kamenetz Tower, a Pakhmutova's song called "Belovezhskaya Pushcha".
"Beautiful nature, a Belarusian symbol, but no vodka in any way".
"I associate Belovezhskaya Pushcha with disintegration of the Soviet Union and those politicians who made their way in the world creating the agreements".
"I have never been there, I know nothing, Belovezhskaya vodka is good".
"All is beautiful there like in a fairy tale, Grandfather Frost is sitting under a Christmas tree, bison are walking, squirrels…".
"A reserve, a national pride, a heart of disorder of the Soviet Union, an accord was signed there and Belarus got an independent state".
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[ER] – All the Belarusians, clearly, know what Belovezhskaya Pushcha is, however everyone, as you see, associates it with different things. Nevertheless, the overwhelming majority links this site with the disintegration of the USSR. By the way, according to the last sociological research, 68 percent of the citizens of Russia, 59 percent of Ukraine and only 52 percent of Belarusians regret today about the disintegration of the USSR. I say "only" in comparison with Russia and Ukraine. Thus, it turns out that the Belarusians regret about the disorder of the USSR to a lesser extent. Do the villagers of Kamenyuki regret?
[HK] - It depends on a person. According to my supervision, the old-aged people are the most regretting.
[ER] - This is clearly typical not only for Kamenyuki.
[HK] - Yes, I say this is like all over the country. As to the young men, they do not regret. There is also some difference between the people with high and secondary education. In general, the villagers are most regretting than the city-dwellers.
[ER] - We heard from this poll that many of the people, it's probably from recently, began to associate Belovezhskaya Pushcha with a residence of Grandfather Frost. What are New Year's celebrations in this residence? What more - pluses or minuses – were brought since the placement of the residence there?
[HK] - As to celebrations, I believe today all Belarusians are aware of it because there is a lot of information presented in TV, radio and newspapers for many years. I think this is clear regarding it. Doesn't it?
[ER] – Let's suppose.
[HK] - There is a traditional program. The people come there. A carnival, excursions etc. …
[ER] - Russian-language performance.
[HK] - Yes, it's like probably almost everywhere.
[ER] - And what is about pluses or minuses from that Grandfather Frost's residence.
[HK] - The interesting fact is that the residence has both pluses and minuses. Pluses are also well-known because they are under advertising in mass-media. I can tell that the residence stimulated tourism development. More people come there, especially the children because this is a fairy tale. The children and adults like it. Financial arrivals gained from tourism, probably, were improved. I think everything is clear here.
[ER] – Well, what is about minuses?
[HK] - Unfortunately, there couldn't do without minuses, like in other businesses in Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Firstly, in my opinion, a strategic mistake was made. Pushcha now has an image of a place where Belarusian Grandfather Frost lives. However, Pushcha which came to us through the centuries is an old surprising wood. This is a reserved area. This is a Reserve. Pushcha was earlier associating with nature protection while Grandfather Frost has now changed this image. He became a main attraction in Belovezhskaya Pushcha. This idea in itself, in my opinion, is not bad. However, it was necessary to create this residence near to the village of Kamenyuki, especially as there are appropriate places. The fact is that Pushcha is divided into four zones. The second zone is in the area where this residence was placed and mass tourism was impossible earlier according to legislation.
[ER] - Why? Are there any rare animals or trees, or other reason?
[HK] - This territory was under protection and the residence was constructed just within a bison nursery. Bison were delivered after the war and their keeping began there. Ludmila Korochkina who investigated bison and dealt with their breeding lived there. Before the residence was constructed, there were plans to use a small building available there in order to make a bison museum. Then the plans have sharply been exchanging and all was reconstructed for the residence. Thus, the historical site was destroyed.
[ER] - By the way, about bison. You personally succeeded to be close to bison and, for example to stroke it by hand?
[HK] - Only in enclosures where they, firstly, are not afraid and, secondly, there is a grid to avoid danger.
[ER] - Let's look wider at the problems of Belovezhskaya Pushcha. You coordinate a public project "Belovezhskaya Pushcha - 21 Century" for the last fife years. You were an employee of the National Park. You worked for sixteen years there and were a deputy director for science. You know obviously the problem of Pushcha very well. Please, tell what basic and top-priority problem would you currently define?
[HK] - I will formulate it in the way in which nearly no one formulates. Belovezhskaya Pushcha isn't a simply forest. This is a primeval and relic forest. This is uniqueness inscribed on a List of World Heritage Mankind Sites. This is the main what should be in Belovezhskaya Pushcha's area. All works should be aimed to preserve this unique forest. The trouble is that this forest and its primeval and relic shapes are disappearing. It turns to some other forest, to something different, less valuable. It becomes an ordinary forest. This is the main problem.
[ER] – Please, tell about the public initiatives which struggle for protection of Belovezhskaya Pushcha, including against felling. Have these public initiatives brought any benefit?
[HK] - Yes, they have. There are two very good examples. Firstly, when the managers of the Property Management Department of the President were changed in 2001 and those people who were later arrested and condemned came to power…
[ER] – Do you mean Mrs. Zhuravkova?
[HK] - Yes, Galina Zhuravkova. Her people have come to Pushcha and completely another history started here. A war was actually initiated both against forest and the people. The forest has suffered very much from it. At first these people thought that they are allowed to do what they want. They have begun to cut trees including living forest in nearly open-for-public way, especially because of an outbreak of spruce bark beetles raised in Belovezhskaya Pushcha exactly at that time. They used this occasion to provide these large-scale cuttings down. Then the Belarusian public has raised a scandal…
[ER] - Yes, there was written information about these scandals.
[HK] - … Due to this it succeeded to stop these cuttings. The second example is dated to 2004 when the UNESCO's experts have taken this problem under control and a mission to Pushcha was hold. An amusing story happened when the public actually forced their way through to take part in a meeting with the experts while the chiefs both from Minsk and the Park tried not to allow the entrance by various tricks, however the meeting was successful. It later proved to be that the UNESCO's experts have shared the public opinion and have expressed anxiety over the actual state of Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Literally in some months we have learned from Minsk that a decision is accepted to enlarge the World Heritage Site which was very small. This is a proof of the fact that the public can strongly influence upon preservation of Belovezhskaya Pushcha.
[ER] – Do you have contacts with the "greens" in other countries?
[HK] - Yes, I cooperate with many international nature protection organizations.
[ER] - How do you think why are the "greens" absent in the politic life in Belarus? Why cannot they have any base and public support?
[HK] - I suppose because the "greens" in Belarus are very weak. There are many reasons for this and they grow from our history. I have written a large article one year ago. It is called Green bazaar, or why Belarusian ecologists did not support an action to protect Belovezhskaya Pushcha. All reasons are brought up details. The main reason is a lack of the true leaders and the great scientists. Moreover, my feelings are that there are actually no the experts on wilderness protection in the country, while wilderness protection is poor. Judge yourselves. If we don't yet have a book called "A History of Wilderness Protection in Belarus", what is the matter to talk further?
[ER] - You are a great enthusiast concerning protection of Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Say about your children. You have a son, pupil of the local school, and a daughter, student of a Brest musical college. What Pushcha means for them? They have grown there. Are they afraid of the forest or do they feel themselves completely free?
[HK] - It is difficult to answer me instead of them. It would be better to get their answers.
[ER] – However, you, probably, walked many times with them.
[HK] – Of course, they have grown in Belovezhskaya Pushcha and Pushcha, probably, is their true home. However, I see a negative tendency at the same time here. The fact is that many people have lately come to Belovezhskaya Pushcha. They fill Pushcha foreign to their nature. They only see Pushcha as a natural resource. And the human policy which is provided in the National Park is not in favour of the locals inhabitants. The locals are really oppressed. The children witness all of these because these things are discussed at home. Few years ago I taught in a local school and one day I asked a question "will all of you stay in Belovezhskaya Pushcha?" Laughter was their answer "Don't you really understand what is going on here? No, we will not stay here". The fact is the people actually leave this area. Those only stay who has no place to get out. This is the real situation.
[ER] - Oh, we will hope that these people will not go away for a long time and will come back to Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Let me remind that Heorhi Kazulka, former employee of the National Park "Belovezhskaya Pushcha", was a tonight's visitor of the Night Liberty Life Radio. That was the talking about how the people of the National Park's area live and how Pushcha lives.
An audio file of this Night Liberty Life broadcast (in Belarusian) is at the address http://realaudio.rferl.org/be/2006/dec/NS061208-1.mp3
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